she came down from the mountain

[chestnutcurls]

Gandalf is settling well into his new home! He was nervous when I first brought him home, but before long he was jumping onto the couch and watching TV with me. :) He is definitely a lap cat. Actually, he seems to prefer laying on our arms, making us unable to do anything without disturbing his kitty sleep. :) His favorite place is on top of the little cat tower we got him. At first he couldn't get down. This drove me to hysterical laughter, because, come on- Gandalf imprisoned on top of a tower! But now he's getting braver. He was starting to climb the furniture this morning.

I am still tired from yesterday. I never thought standing for a couple of hours in unsupportive shoes, sticking stickers on things, would wipe me out this way. It's very weird.

I didn't go to RUF last night, mainly because of the cat, but also because I need to not go there so much. This was the first time I had ever just stayed home, for no real reason. But guess what? Evan was there! Yes, the first RUF he's attended in two months, and it was the one I didn't go to. And Les Newsom was there, visiting and doing the message, so I missed him as well. I had planned to meet up with them afterwards, but Ryan called and told me everyone was just going home. This is seriously not my week.

Oh, here's something I wanted to talk about. I came across this site the other day, Barlow Girl. It's a group of girls who commit to dress modestly, be abstinent, and not date. The first two things, I'm all for; the third, obviously, not. See, part of the reason I reject the whole courtship thing is because, at my old age of 23, I would feel silly doing it. I've been wondering why I feel that way. What is it about courtship that seems to be only for younger girls? The intense parental involvement, partly; that really would be silly as I am independent from my parents. But I think courtship also requires a degree of optimism. There's the sort of expectation that you're going to be married before long, whether you're "courting" at the moment or not. And I haven't had a date since I was 19, so a life of singleness is looking really possible right now. Courtship is like, "Hey, I know you want me, so this is what you've got to do to get me." But I'm like, "Hey, nobody wants me, and extra rules would just make it worse." So maybe that's why I feel silly. Any thoughts on this?

Comments

barlow girls

[ex-lifeofbri692.livejournal.com]

I think the whole desire for the site is nice and if they can make it a reality that's great. I know of many people that say they're in courtship, but rather it's more of a dating where they're placing their relationships with God first and seeking His will. In my last relationship it was totally that way... sure we kissed, but from day one we made it clear that we have morals and desires to live by Christ.

Courtship is like, "Hey, I know you want me, so this is what you've got to do to get me." But I'm like, "Hey, nobody wants me, and extra rules would just make it worse." So maybe that's why I feel silly. Any thoughts on this?

Hmm... I dunno if that's the best way to look at it :/

[sominfun.livejournal.com]

Applying Christian principles to dating is not my strong suit, and it's probably one of the biggest areas of sin in my life that I struggle with. So take what I write with a huge grain of salt.

I know families with daughters that "court" instead of "date." These women are around our age, still live with their parents, and don't have much of a social life outside of church related activities. I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with that lifestyle; my point is just that they've been raised differently than I have. The Barlow girls site seems to say that they view courting is just a different frame of mind, and I agree with most of the principles they set forth. I've said it before and I'll say it again I don't think many people (present company excluded) take dating seriously enough. Courting seems impractical in my life because I don't have parents present to screen interested parties or to chaperon visits.

All that said, I think you are a great catch. I don't think you should be so hard on yourself (i.e. nobody wants me). We both know that's untrue. Wasn't it Lawson who wrote that he thought about asking you out, but remembered you wanted a reformed Christian? So there are people who "want" you. I think a fairer statement would be that you haven't met anyone that meets your criteria that is interested in dating you at this moment. You are desirable for all of the right reasons. I have total faith that there is no reason for you to give up hope.

We had a great RUF intern at FSU who went on to work for RUF in Atlanta. Great girl. I guess she's about 25 or 26 now. She just recently became engaged, but she only met him a few months ago. A friend asked him if he was everything she hoped for, and she said he was more than she could have imagined. You are only 23. Me too. :) Like the Barlow girls site says - God's timing.

[chestnutcurls.livejournal.com]

Thank you. That's nice of you. :)

Yeah, I think the things they are striving for are nice. And no, I don't think I could be said to have a casual attitude toward dating. :P Obviously it is a big deal to me. But I think there's a point where people get way too control-freaky about the parameters of their relationships. "We will stay three feet away from one another at all times. We will only talk to each other in public. We will not develop any sort of emotional attachment to one another until we are at the altar." Control, control, control. Like, we all agree that eating healthily is good. But if you can't eat without thinking about every calorie on your plate and fretting over how it will affect your health, that's not good. That's sort of how I see courtship: a hyper-focusing and over-analyzing of something that is just another part of life.

In no way am I saying that relationships aren't important, or that we shouldn't seek to glorify God in them, because they are and we should. But if I went into a relationship with the degree of caution that courtship people do, it would be over very fast. I would be so stressed out and upset from repressing my feelings and trying so hard to do things exactly right. I don't need that kind of emotional upheaval. I have enough already.

This is not directed at you, by the way, but at everybody. :) I just didn't want to reply to everyone. And I'll probably regret having spoken as soon as I post this, but oh well.

Re:

[sominfun.livejournal.com]

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you wrote. And with most everything everyone else wrote too. Dating should be taken seriously, but it's hard enough without setting up a bunch of rules. My limited experience with courtship (in other people's lives) is as I described: chaperones, group activities, and parental approval/disapproval. And I'm not waiting until my wedding day to kiss my future husband (like the Barlow girl wrote on her website). Sor-ry.

I'm sure we all have different ideas for what courtship entails, but it's obvious we all agree that dating shouldn't be casual.

[greenhornet.livejournal.com]

The way Courtship has been portrayed to me, is basically a step backward toward arranged marriages. I want my parents to love and appreciate who I marry, and I want my spouses parents to fee the same about me, but the attitude that I am not able to pray through things and find what God want for my life, without my parents hand-holding me, is patronizing and insulting. My parents don't want the responsibility either. They think I ought to make my own choices. My parents attitude about child rearing was this, We need to get him ready to fend for himself and make good choices, therefore we must point him to Christ and the Bible. If he knows Christ and follows the word in decision making as an adult, our job is done.
I'm glad I have my parents instead of some that I know.

I do think that there is a hyper-focus and craziness that makes some christians really appear to be whack-jobs.

I've noticed that God brings people together in all sorts of ways, and they all seem to have just about the same level of joy in it.

there is my 2 cents plus some

[moredetails.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what the exact definition of courting is, but in my mind it is not necessarily how you described (parents involved, young girls, etc.). The way I see it, the difference between dating and courting is the intention. If someone goes out with random guys, even when they aren't necessarily qualified prospects, that is dating. If someone decides to get to know someone because from what they do know, they'd make a good husband, then that's courting. Again, this is just my definition.

Another difference between dating and courting is that sometimes people date several people at once, while courting sort of implies that the couple is exclusive and giving each other a full chance before "trying out" anyone else. It's sort of like entering a relationship that is more defined than just saying "oh we're dating" with no sort of commitment.

Have you ever read Boy Meets Girl? I loved that book. Joshua Harris (that's his name, right?) talks about how we shouldn't get caught up in the terminology as much as the practice of taking things slow, guarding our heart, and "dating" with purpose (to establish whether or not the person is marriage material) instead of just for fun. I think the reason group activities and limited physical affection are emphasized is just because that type of environment is more conducive to getting to know someone while still guarding our heart and remaining pure.

As for the parents thing, I have discussed this with a few different people. In my opinion, my dad is not a very good judge of who I should be with. He doesn't have the same standards as I do. While I want my future husband to get along with the family, I don't have the whole "parents intercepting all prospects" practice going on. I think God and I can make the decision, and I think my parents agree and trust me.

So...yeah. :) Hi.

[dakoda.livejournal.com]

That's funny about Gandalf! How ironic:)


I'm all for courting. It's not only that your parents are involved (which c'mon, even though some of us can't STAND our parents, they can tend to see things in our friends/potential mates that we *can't*, God gave us parents for a reason ya know! ;), but it's that GOD is involved, and it's about staying pure. With dating, you kiss, you cuddle, you do whatever. With courting, you DON'T and AREN'T supposed to do that. I Loved the way Joshua Harris explained courting in his second book, have you read it? That man has some awesome Godly wisdom.

The basic difference between dating and courting is: Dating- you're only doing it because you want to be with someone or just have a partner. Courting- you're doing it because you want to marry, you feel you're ready to get into it and start searching for a spouse, and it's so that you and whoever you're courting can get to know each other, find each other's faults, meet each other's families and see if each other's parents approve of you two being together, etc....
It's a very Godly way to do things. I'm not saying you're a sinner or anything if you don't, but, that's the way I can totally see God wanting it done, and that's the way, Lord willing, I'm gonna do it:)

[moredetails.livejournal.com]

Excellent answer! Look at mine, I mentioned the SAME book. :)

[dakoda.livejournal.com]

Hey, we're so smart together! heehee.

And what you said about your dad not really being a good person for judging who you date, there was something about that in Josh's book, too. He says for anyone who has that problem, they should find a Godly couple that they trust and that they know share the same standards, and ask *them* to be involved. I thought that was a neat thing:)

[moredetails.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that! I would probably consult Bev on a person to see what she thought, plus, I'm always open to what my siblings and friends have to say. I think other trusted opinions is important. I always say that I want others to KNOW why I chose the guy I did, because many of his great qualities will be apparent. I don't want to spend my life defending someone.

[dakoda.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty open minded to hear opinions from my siblings, too.
And that's a good thing about telling others why you like the guy. I'd tell others that, too. I tend to think of things as "Well, if they're interested, then they'll ask." but that's not always a good thing, 'cause people don't ask half the time, they just *assume*, and what they assume isn't always something good. I'm trying to get out of that mindset.

[moredetails.livejournal.com]

Actually, I meant that I hope people can see (if they know him at all) some of the basic reasons I chose him without me having to defend/say it. Obviously no one else will have the same degree of appreciation and love that I will have for my husband, but if other people around me are clueless on why I chose him, then we have a problem. His faith, sweetness and maturity should shine through fairly well.

brilliant

[verseseven.livejournal.com]

"Hey, nobody wants me, and extra rules would just make it worse."

Brilliant. That made me laugh because I feel the same way sometimes! I realize that I used to hide behind my "rules". And now at the old age of 24 I'm totally re-examining all that I believe and what Elizabeth Elliott told me. When it comes down to it, I think I want to chuck it all and just see what God wants me to do according to the situation. Recently I've found myself thinking, "Oh, Elizabeth Elliot or Joshua Harris would be disappointed..." then realized...hey, what about Jesus? Is He disappointed with my actions? I don't need a bunch of extra rules...it's too confusing and condeming.